Meditative Living with Swami Shivananda Giri 08/16/2013

Baba Muktananda ‘Meditation Revolution’ Continues Ten Years After His Passing
November 1, 2015
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Meditative Living with Swami Shivananda Giri 08/16/2013

Swami: Namaste and blessings. Welcome to Meditative Living. I’m Swami Shivananda Giri and I welcome you with great love and great respect to another episode of Meditative Living. I bring you the teachings, the blessings, and the shakti, of His Holiness Mahamandaleshwar Paramahamsa Swarupananda Vishwa Guru Maharaj of Los Angeles. Who in 2007 became the first white, American born, human being to be invited into the rank of the 80 Mahamandaleshwars in Hinduism for this particular planet. Or as we call it, Sanatana Dharma. Hinduism actually is the term brought about by the English when they took over India referring to residents of the Indus river valley and then, you know, went through various changes and they started calling them Hindus, you know. But, long long long long long time before that occurred this path was called simply Sanatana Dharma, the Eternal Way, the eternal duty, the perennial religion. It is the universal inner esoteric process humans go through as they come into direct and conscious perception. First of their inward functioning. Then of the Source, by which ever set of syllables brings joy to your heart, I have no investment in any of them. Then after some time sitting with this source the whole I, and He, or It, or She, whichever, you know, whatever is applicable for the individual. As you sit with He or She or That the division of I and That or He or She just goes away, it just falls down and then there is only the One. Without a second even possible. And that’s the highest level. And that’s one of the craziest things that, is that at the highest level nothin’s happening. Because in order for something to happen there would have to be an individuated perceiver, a means of perception, whether physical sense or psychic sense. And a third thing, being perceived, either an object or a state of consciousness. But in the One those 3 have collapsed and are not arisen, they are not there. Though they may exist in the play of consciousness, the individual who prior to this had been only identified with the body and the mind drops those limitations. They fall. And when… when the Trika, the trio, the 3, the perceiver, the means of perception, and that which is perceived, cease. You’ve become infinite and eternal. You become the Divine. There is nothing then that is not you. And that’s pretty much the simple explanation of what occurs. And there is any number of ways to get to that point.

Psonik: Swami

Swami: Yes, yes, yes

Psonik: and just once you were talking there that sort of reminded me of The Principle of the Holographic Universe in that you it’s saying that everything observed is a wave form or a frequency and then when it is observed it becomes a particle, it becomes solid. So in that respect everything that in the waveform is the collective Oneness. And then the when the consciousness arises to become the perceiver that’s when, and viewing objects, that’s when it goes from the wave and into the particle.

Swami: Exactly because without observation there is no individuation.

Psonik: Yup. So what Swamis and Gurus have been talking about for thousands and thousands and thousands of years has basically been corroborated by ah…

Swami: quantum mechanics.

Psonik: quantum mechanics, ya.

Swami: Exactly ya. His Holiness, used to, I used to hear, early on before I you know really had actually experienced it for myself … I would hear him speak of the fact that what we are participating in, seemingly, is a seamless holographic monism. That was his term for it. Seamless in that in its actual essence, nothing can be picked apart. Holographic in that in every particle of apparent individuation is the entirety. And a monism speaks of, there’s One, One thing appearing to be many. In our system… see some people think of Hinduism as pantheistic, meaning many Gods. And for some practitioners that’s how they approach it. We do not. We say we are pan-en-theistic which means all of the variations from gods to blades of grass occur due to the One that precedes all of them, is there during all of them, and to which all of them return at the end of a world cycle. Or at the end of what is also referred to as the day of Brahman. This Brahman is without name or form.

Psonik: Or also just until whatever is there appearing is not being observed.

Swami: Right

Psonik: So I mean. Ya a blade of grass is only there until there’s nothing around observing the blade of grass and then it just turns back into the waveform.

Swami: Right

Psonik: So so

Swami: it never ceased being the waveform…

Psonik: Ya ya

Swami: that’s the thing. It never ceased being the One only under observation by an individuated unit of consciousness it appeared to be other than the One.

Psonik: And, it you know, talking about frequencies, and you know perhaps radio stations cause we’re on a radio station, you know on the analog stations, you tune in don’t you?

Swami: Yes

Psonik: So our consciousness is like the tuning isn’t it?

Swami: Uh huh, yes

Psonik: because it’s focusing…

Swami: because you are, if you want to think about it in this way, the individuated unit of consciousness that answers to your name and functions through your form is inherently tuned in to certain frequency levels but not to others. Now those others that you are not tuned into don’t cease to exist they just function at a frequency range that you don’t pick up.

Psonik: ya

Swami: But they are still entirely real, entirely functional, doing whatever the hell it is they do. But we as individuated units of consciousness have a great spectrum, even within our limitations as a body and a mind and a set of physical and psychic senses. There’s even within that limitation an enormous spectrum that can be experienced. All of it completely valid for someone. Or else it would not be observed and experienced. So for those who are aware, ok well like astral stuff…most of us at night when we are asleep and not primarily identified with the body because waking consciousness has changed. The focus has changed from the sensory input to the mental, to the inner of the mind. Then what is perceived, often times, is the astral realm. Which is just as real.. [Knocking on desk]… as this. It’s just made up of more subtle stuff. It’s not material. It’s not matter but it is still stuff. It’s just lighter. And many of us will have astral experiences and the bodies that we utilize in those experiences will often very much resemble our physical bodies. And you can do things in that, in that realm, that cannot be done due to the physicality and the limitations in the physical. But it’s entirely real. And anybody who’s, you know, had these experiences at night sometimes you may think ‘Oh wow that was weird but it was more real than a dream.’ Well then generally, that was an astral experience. Not unusual, totally natural. It’s just the mind was no longer picking up the physical frequencies that are reported by the physical senses so the more subtle had the opportunity to catch the attention. And then there’s above, well outside of more subtle than the astral is the causal realm. And then beyond that is the supracausal realm where there is only, there’s only the beginnings of separation and formation. In the causal there’s not even bodies as such. My first experience of that was like ah… it was like being around, ok, my perception of it at the time was that it was like being in a room full of fuzzy balls of light. That the lights were shifting colors within these balls. Now these balls could have been the size of a basketball. They could have been the size of an atom. They could have been the size of a universe. I have no clue. I was just perceiving these and i’m saying fuzzy not because of furry but like not distinct sharply focused is what I mean by fuzzy. With varied frequencies of light color within them. Changing, and that’s all there was. And I was just like what the hell is all this? And I come back out of it and I’m like I got no clue what that was, I don’t know, you know. But that’s… in the in the causal ok, form is, individuation is beginning. Supracausal is like ideation, just thoughts, just ideas, possibilities. All the potentials beginning to arise. If we can go that far with this discussion. But you can experience all of this stuff, all of it. Because you ARE all of it! It’s just right now for most people listening, they are primarily identified with and limited to the physical body, the physical senses and the externalized individuated bundle of thoughts, memories, notions, attachments, aversions that we refer to as the mind. The mind is not the brain. The brain is an organ that has function but that is not the mind. The mind is not even part of the body. It’s something separate. Ok. And all of these things you can dive deep and just come up with eleventy jillion different ways to describe all this stuff but we’re really just talking about the same things. Every Master has talked about the same stuff, in essence. They just spoke about it in the traditional way that they came up and that they understood it for the culture and the place and the time that their form and name occurred in. But we’re really all talking about the same stuff. And it’s a universal process. In this universe and every other. There are many many many universes. Many many many worlds within universes, planets, galaxies, all that stuff. Tons and tons… you can’t even, the human mind cannot even comprehend a smidgen of what all there is. All of it completely real, completely valid, for someone.

Psonik: Ah Swami

Swami: yes

Psonik: we have a caller

Swami: what time is it? OK

Psonik: It’s um, We’ve got nearly 40 minutes to go. Um area code 541

Swami: Bring him on

Psonik: The mic is up

Swami: Namaste and blessings. Welcome to Meditative Living. Who’s this?

Steve: Swami, this is Steve calling from Oregon.

Swami: Namaste good to hear from you.

Steve: Namaste Swami.

Swami: Now, for those listening last weekend I did a little marathon of satsang and video darshan. Ah, satsang means communicating or communing with Truth. This is when a Master sits and interacts with people and they ask questions and thus and such, ok. Darshan means seeing. All right, so for someone to see a Swami, a Guru, a Master, a teacher, whatever this is having their darshan. That’s what those words mean. Anyway Steve here, Shiva Das, was one of those individuals and if you would be so kind I would like you to relate, in your own words, what that was like for you.

Steve: Well let’s see ah. Well it’s very pleasant. You are very pleasant to talk to. And I, ah, I literally could feel energy coming right from you through the screen right, right into my third eye filling me with light really so… Yea, that’s my report about that. That is something that a.. that’s a thing. That can actually happen. Swami is capable…

Swami: Ya, see a lot of people don’t buy that. A lot of people who haven’t experienced it don’t think that that can happen.

Steve: Well I do imagine, I imagine that people listening haven’t heard of such a thing. I didn’t know it was a thing. I believed it could be a thing. Why couldn’t you… on that level but it probably worked for me easier than some people because I ah I assumed that you could do it. If that makes any sense.

Swami: Yep, well it does to me. Plus you’ve been at you know this path for some time, you know. And you’ve been working in a lot of different ways and you know, trying to be good and do the right things and practices and study of the eastern scriptures and ways of doing things. But you just haven’t yet had the darshan of one who does as I do yet, that’s all, you know. Lots of other people can do it. It’s not a big deal at all. I promise you. That and five bucks will get you some Starbucks.

Steve: Oh I’m sure.

Swami: But for those who can perceive it. For those whose individuated unit of consciousness is tuned in to these frequencies these things occur. This light is seen and felt and actually experienced. Just like, just like a fart would be experienced. I mean, something is picking up information, data, and frequency. You know? And it comes from the One who has it. And it’s not, believe me, it’s not some big fancy anything. It’s all so simple. It really, really is. That’s the craziest part of all of this, at least to me.

Steve: That’s what makes it accessible. That’s what makes it something that people listening can tap into right now. So I’m hoping that…

Swami: So

Steve: …hoping that a lot of people are.

Swami: So you, you’ve picked up the sadhana, which is the spiritual practices that I assist people with. How’s that been going?

Steve: Um for the most part my meditation has been going real well. I uh, like I mentioned to you yesterday, I honestly have been experiencing intermittent, you know, light in my head. I’m feeling it. I’m feeling the energy up and down my spine. Um, I have to be honest, um, quite unintentionally I am seeing you and His Holiness quite frequently during my meditations. I feel like um…

Swami: Now let me ask something. Let me ask something. The way you structured that sentence made it sound as if you are choosing for these images to appear. So that would then be imagining. Or are you experiencing it without seeking for it?

Steve: Well I would have to say the latter. I’m not seeking… I was not seeking for it. Although I do have experience in practices of visualization. So, you know I…

Swami: OK, see I wanted to, I wanted to make sure…

Steve: I believe that honestly that you and His Holiness are standing outside of time completely cognizant of the fact that I am sitting there meditating at that moment. That’s my belief.

Swami: Right. And see, that’s the cool, that’s one of the cool things. Is that at a certain point… you are not, you are no longer limited to functioning within time and space. You’re bigger than that. That is within you. You know? And you can either play with it or not play with it. That’s your choice. But that’s after you get to you know, some of the upper levels. Um, now, you’re kicking ass. You’re doing a great job. And I just wanted to applaud you and give you my Namaste and blessings and you’re doing great.

Steve: I, I really appreciate you…

Swami: I, I wanted people to hear. Now this is, you know, this is an individual that I have been directly interacting with for 1 week now. That’s all. That’s it. But prior to us interacting there was already a draw. You know? We had, we were on Facebook… and each of us, and I can tell you that, you know, and this happens for my end too. There is a draw… somewhat like a magnetic sort of pull. You know? When the individual is right from either direction this can be perceived. And I get this a lot from people. Their like, wow I was just drawn to what you were saying, what you were doing, yada yada yada. And and in all honestly it is not me as a human body and a name. It’s it’s it’s what all human bodies and names arise from. That just becomes more and more clearly perceivable in certain individuals due to their practices and Grace, to be very honest. Grace is the source of everything. There’s nothing going on that isn’t Grace. As strange as that may sound that’s the truth.

Steve: Well, I firmly believe that. That was the missing ingredient in my practice, is Gurus’ Grace.

Swami: And it is the One thing that sets aside all intellectual constructs, all rules, all regulations, all perceptions, no problem. It doesn’t matter, it’s given. It’s not earned. It’s not a paycheck. It’s not drawing interest, it’s just given. And nothing is asked in return. I’m very very blessed to be One of the vessels through which individuals can experience directly, Divine Grace. In my lineage this is what the Gurus are. The Guru form, the body, becomes a vessel that others can experience Grace through. Until they themselves become vessels of Grace. We all have the potential. Very few will realize that potential. But it’s in all of us, equally. So Shiva Das, thank you so very much for calling in. I just had such a good time chatting with you.

Steve: I look forward to chatting with you again soon Swami. Namaste.

Swami: Namaste, we’ll be doing darshan tomorrow. Bye bye. All right, Psonik.

Psonik: I’ll just mute it, I’ll just mute him so um he can still listen just if he wants to. Oh he’s gone. He’s gone now.

Swami: That’s all right. Um, let’s go ahead and do the bottom of the hour and if you got a question of the week we’ll address that. We’ll be back on Meditative Living.

(Commercial break and Aum Nama Sivaya by Muni Natarajan

Swami: Namaste and blessings. Welcome back to Meditative Living. I’m Swami Shivananda Giri. Thank you so much to Shiva Das, also known as Steve out in Oregon, for that call. That was, that was fun. Um, I’ve been doing this video darshan thing and it’s just been a blast! I’ve had the opportunity to interact with people and watch how the Shakti affects them as we’re talking and when we go into mediation and stuff. And I’m just I’m diggin it the most. It’s a blast so I look forward to, if your listening now and you’re a practitioner already if you’re initiated and doing the ah doing the practices I would love to spend some time with you privately in person. And discuss whatever may be going on for you. So get a hold of me and let’s schedule it. If you’ve got Skype and you can do the video calling thing let’s do it. Let’s have some fun. All right Sonic, you got a question for me?

Psonik: I do Swami, Namaste.

Swami: Namaste

Psonik: Ah my question is related to what you’ve been talking to in the show basically about the frequency and the particle and you know everything being the One. And that is about the interdependent relationship between the trinity. Ah can you explain for our listeners and myself about ah … I was just thinking about in the tune there… so does individual, individuated consciousness arise from the observation, the observer and the observation? And then like you say in the subtle realms there it there was fuzziness and so the ball grows the level of consciousness the more the stronger the individuated ness.

Swami: Ya, I think that’s a fair way to characterize it. Again, this is based on my perception as I’ve gone through the process. Others may perceive it differently and that’s all wonderful. But yeah because until ok… it’s sort of like sparks coming off of a fire.

Psonik: uh huh

Swami: Alright, there’s one flame that may be a whole bunch of sparks that are not different from the flame. They’ve just separated from it. And they burn and they go out, ok. But it’s just the one flame. The one fire is inherent, is the same in all of it. It’s just for a time and for a period of space this individuation of the whole occurs. Only due to the time and the space and the appearance of the separation. Ya. Because you’ve got to forget that you’re everything in order to be just one thing.

Psonik: Ok, ok, but um. At the moment the people that don’t believe that they’re enlightened because we’re all part of the One. So we’re all there, we’ve never left. But at the moment the majority of the planet are grasping at the self. At the, at the, the I, the bit that they call me, ya?

Swami: uh hum

Psonik: so um how. So even though um the, the bit that’s me and the bit that me’s looking at are One, are one and the same. How do you ah explain to people to um a way of um releasing the grip on the I? Make them to get to realize that the I um doesn’t really exist?

Swami: They have to directly and consciously experience it for themselves. Intellect, reading about it, talking about it, hearing about it will never do it. If you’re thirsty you gotta drink the water. You can’t read about water. You can’t hear about water. So in order to get to this experience, to drop this, you have to go to That. You have to turn your back on the sensory input and the thought process and go backwards the way you came to get here in the first place.

Psonik: And one good way of doing that would be to you know maybe start the practice with you. Do this darshan thing and are you talking to Steve before it reminded me of something we were talking about I don’t know last week or the week before where you were saying that these people don’t want ah a certain amount of am ah Karma and and they meet ah somebody and then you know they are that all that karma is released almost and then ahm here comes that potential. So ahm the way ahm it was being described between ah you and Steve there was that Steve had ahm been interested in this and ahm doing lots of practice to build up to a point where he was ahm able to experience the ah darshan through ahm ah the sight of you.

Swami: Right, Yep. It is all process. It is all process. It is all direct conscious experience, not thought. Because the experience will come regardless what you think you know. And it is the fact you are thinking that keeps you from knowing. That’s the craziest part. Only once the mind ceases do you know that which is beyond the reach of the mind and the senses. Like I said, you can hear about it. You can read about it. You can talk about it. You can fight wars about it. But you’ll never get it unless you go there yourself. You simply won’t. It’s not possible. You have to sit down, be quiet and let the mind settle down. And when you have the opportunity to have the guidance of someone who is qualified and empowered to assist in this way then the best thing you can do is sit down and shut up. Don’t try to tell them how to teach you. Just shut up and see what happens. That’s the way to get to it in this particular path. There are others. They just take a lot longer. But that’s OK. Everybody is doing whatever is correct for them. You know? Because at the end it’s just the One. And all the names and forms are that One. That One is missing nothing. You can’t add anything to it, you can’t take anything away from it. Only your thoughts change. Your perception changes. The way that things affect you changes when you gain this understanding, this proper knowledge, self realization, enlightenment, any number of terms all talking about the same basic thing. And as you get closer and closer sometimes it gets more and more frustrating or frightening. Because you start to lose the primary focus on the individual body and mind part and if that’s all you’ve known for a very very long time you won’t know what to do otherwise. And you’ll think, Oh my God what if if what if I don’t….. and all these frightened stressful thoughts come. That’s just part of the process too.

Psonik: You were taught. Ya

Swami: Have I answered the question?

Psonik: Ahm somewhat and then a little bit extra. Which, which is always good Swami. Your utterances are amazing as ever.

Swami: Well, you know, and here’s the thing. Ok Let me let me just be very very clear about this. As a human form with a name and an individuated unit of consciousness it is not me doing anything. These things occur through this form, this name, this individuated unit of consciousness. I’m not planning all this stuff out. It just happens. And some people experience it and it’s very cool you know thus and such. And to others I’m a complete freakin’ idiot. And they are right too. It doesn’t, it makes no difference, its all just happening.

Psonik: And it’s also different perspectives.

Swami: Ya. So I mean the enlightened people, liberated people, who seem to have miraculous things going on. They’re not the least bit miraculous to that person. It’s just stuff is happening. They’re not choosing it. They couldn’t stop it. It just happens. You know? If you take light, you cannot with your flashlight more closely examine darkness. The darkness just goes away. You know? The ignorant goes away when the light is there. And perhaps it comes back again within the individual. Perhaps the ignorance comes back. But that’s the way we go through these processes. When you work with an individual who is enlightened, who shines the light into you, and you can perceive that, that’s for some how the beginning of this really serious deep subtle stuff is. But it’s not that way for everybody. There are no cookie cutters. Everybody is entirely valid in whatever experience they are having, totally. I have no judgments for any human being anywhere. Each is playing out their part. Some are doing it knowingly. Most are doing it unknowingly. And therefore karma must be a more powerful factor for them and will push them into various situations and circumstances. But once you start burning up the karma it’s just less effective. It’s still there. You know? A breeze is gonna move a flag. Not to the extent a tornado will but it still moves it. So the karma, your karmic processes… What I refer.. what we talk about the prarabdha karma which is the destiny for that individuation during that body these things will take place. Thus and such. Ok? Certain ah circumstances and situations and things have to be karmicly taken care of. Even for the Jivanmukti. Even for the One who is enlightened and liberated. Prarabdha is still playing out through that form. It’s just they’re just watching and they’re not all twisted up about it. They can be content regardless of their circumstances. Doesn’t mean they’re completely enjoying things when horrible things happen. No, no no. Because you’re still human! You’ve become both 100% Divine and Source while being 100% human and individuated. And that’s just the way it works. Sonic, thank you so much. If you would let’s go ahead and hit the outro. We’ll wrap up Meditative Living for this week.

Psonik: Om Namah Shivaya Swami.

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